The BlackEagleTrader

Should Patch Sellers Be Role Models of the Hobby?

2008-04-30T21:31:00.009-05:00

Auction from both TSPA (406) and Streamwood (339)

Auction from both TSPA (406) and Streamwood (339)

Ebay Hall of Shame

I really do not like to do things like this but I have really had it. Seriously, who do these sellers think they are and why anyone would look up to these folks and call them leaders of the hobby has me thinking...Are you serious? What is so sad about this is they do a lot of big things for the hobby but seem to forget the little things are just as important.

Recent Auctions on Ebay:

EBAY AUCTION Chickasah 406 Flap From TSPA

I have had issues with TSPA for quite some time. In fact, I was banned from bidding on their auctions years ago. I won several auctions with them in a 36 hour period and combined the total costs and with the correct shipping all on one money order and they said I didn't pay for half of the patches. I sent them a scan of my money order with the break down and did eventually receive my patches. What made the experience so horrible is they tried to make it seem like it was all my fault. I left them negative feedback for their lack of common sense and haven't been able to bid on their auctions since. I was upset by this at first and then realized TSPA isn't the only seller in the world to obtain rare patches. The above patch was won by my father and while he may not care as much about the writing on the back as I do...its still wrong and its not the first time TSPA has done this. The lodge 46 Eriez flap in my collection was also purchased from them with nice a gluey substance on the back of it...also omitted from the listing.

Reality Check: Dear TSPA,

As a bidder, I assume all patches are MINT unless otherwise noted. Mint means to me as "New right off the loom". Patches in pristine condition are important to your buyers. As a trader, I can not trade these patches without disclosing the full condition of the patch and this will lesson its desire by another trader. As a collector, I wouldn't not want a patch written all over it in my collection. I want the patches in my collection to be museum pieces. While you can argue that your listing is not in error, the lack of quality information speaks GREAT volume about TSPA and its lack of concern for the items you are selling. TSPA does not alway sell quality patches and frankly does not seem to care if they do. I am quite sure TSPA would be most unhappy to receive a check with the words VOID on it without me informing them first. I do suppose you could see the irony in that.

How to Fix the problem: Spend 30 more seconds on a listing to describe the back of the patch if it has been tempered with. You don't even have to include a picture.

Final Thoughts: Has TSPA has become to big for themselves? You don't hear more complaints from TSPA auctions because they seem to ban their customer base if they have legitimate issues with them. I have received some quality patches from TSPA to include a Pristine MINT Black Eagle F-2 and it took me years to find a Mint one to my satisfaction. The $5.00 patches are just as important too.

EBAY AUCTION 339 Amo'Chk Woven Flap

Streamwood simply caught me on a bad day. I never really had an issue with them before and I honestly love what they do...Please..Please I beg of you....do not get lazy and turn into TSPA. If you got time to make funny merit badges and to organize a TOR or two you can afford a few extra seconds to describe the condition of your patches. A picture of the front alone isn't enough.

I do prefer mint patches for my woven collection...I am currently putting less than mint flaps simply to fill the holes. It is disappointing to receive a patch in less than mint condition when your not expecting it. Its like a kid opening up a Christmas present and a piece of the toy is missing and it doesn't work. This does not work.

Recent Lodge 558 Ahoalan-Nachpikin Issues

2008-01-19T00:15:00.000-06:00

Ahoalan-Nachpikin NCLS Flap S-45

I know little of the flap other than what I was told and what I have observed. From a collecting stand point this is going to be a difficult issue to obtain from the lodge. This lodge has a history of low run issues but this is out of the normal even for this lodge. They must of had a small contingent that went to this event. Believe it or not this lodge has had several issues with 100 or less made in their past. I suppose what makes it so shocking to me is the small number of them. There were 50 flaps made. If you ever find this patch on Ebay for less than $100.00 consider yourself lucky.

Ahoalan-Nachpikin LOAC XII Flap eS2008-1

The latest in LOAC flaps from the lodge. The flap was described in their lodge history as "Frozen version of the standard flap. Icebergs in background. First use of the BSA security backing. FDL 300 units made. 128x57mm. Rd Bdr, Pb"

Security Seal Mentioned Above

Speaking of number made...300 is pretty typical for this lodge. As a collector, I know its hard to lay off of new issues when they first appear on Ebay but I really recommend it to some of the collectors out there. This LOAC XII flap went for $61.00 on its first appearance on Ebay. Someone had a LOAC II flap at the same time out there (400 made) and went under $30.00. Believe me the LOAC II flap is a far better deal. Why? Because you could easily trade a LOAC II flap to someone in the lodge for the new LOAC XII flap...its what I did. Of course, if you don't mind spending that kind of money on a new issue..by all means. :) Even if I didn't trade for one of these flaps I still wouldn't have paid more than $25.00 for it. While 300 does not sound like a lot of patches...you will be surprised how many of them will float around for the next few years.

Lodge 558 Ahoalan-Nachpikin A-1

First appearance of an arrowhead issue for the lodge. Apparently, there was some debate on what to call it. I believe it was first issued at a fall fellowship. I thought it was a fellowship patch at first. Anyhow, the wise sages for the lodge labeled it an arrowhead and it certainly shaped like one. The lodge refers to the patch as The Lodge Stamp, "Used as logo or brand for 2007. Concept by Patrick Howie. 300 made, hang loop, 134x70mm, CE, Pb."

Old..But New Black Eagle Camp Staff Flap on Ebay

2008-01-16T23:54:00.001-06:00

Black Eagle Flap Camp Staff Flap 2005?

Ebay Auction

This is the first time I am seeing this flap. I know..its bad. I claim to be a Black Eagle expert and not even sure what it is I am looking at... *Blink*. Well, hopefully my information will be more up to date as I am finally in contact with the Trading Post Manager for the lodge. I knew there was a 2005 and 2006 staff flap but it took almost 3 years to finally at least see a picture of both.

Recent Camp Staff Flap on Ebay:

EBAY AUCTION Black Eagle Lodge 2005 Camp Staff Flap?

Its a pretty simple design. Reminds of the 2004 camp staff flap with the tent design. It has the OA Arrow symbol on it. The lack of a lodge number is a huge one. Not a big fan of the number not being on the flap. It is also strange that the camp names are more pronounced than the lodge name. The scan on Ebay isn't the best but I can't make out a Fdl or a BSA on the flap.

I have no idea how much this will go for. Oddly, the Lodge Chief Flap auction ended on a flat note:

Previous Entry on Lodge Chief Flap

The end price was only $46.00 for a flap that requires you to be a Lodge Chief from Black Eagle to receive one. If that wasn't insulting enough it also had a Transatlantic Volksmarch Medal and an Intercamp Patch from 1994. If your an Overseas collector that was a bargain. The lodge chief auction was not marked very well but could still be easily found if you collected Black Eagle items. Its hard to picture this auction going for more than the Lodge Chief Flap auction...but no one said people were sane.

New Moswetuset Lodge #052 Flap Patch

2008-01-10T01:10:00.000-06:00

New Moswetuset Lodge #052 Flap (07 Scouting Hall of Fame)

Ebay Auction

A lot of patches are first discovered on Ebay these days. This was the first time I saw this specific Moswetuset Flap. A few other 07 Scouting Hall of Fame flaps appeared months ago but not this specific issue.

The Ebay Seller said very little about the patch. "Moswetuset Lodge flap from the 2007 New England Scouting Hall of Fame dinner. Very limited. Mint condition." The seller listed the patch 1 or 2 more times. He even dropped the price $5.00 but no one else bought one. I thought that was a horrible showing on any fellow collectors for this lodge. Who knows...it could be a while before you get another chance to buy one. Either no one else noticed...or no one else cared. I figure it is time to change that.

I think Moswetuset Lodge patches are very collectible. They have unique designs and have a certain unique look that has attracted my attention. Apparently, there is not a lot of folks collecting these patches. I know there are a couple but the exposure on their patches isn't as wide spread as some of the other lodges I collect. This is the main reason I decided to publish information about their patches when I can get my hands on it.

A Parting Gift from Canadian Scouts in Europe

2008-01-08T23:17:00.000-06:00

I really do not know much about the neckerchief. All I know is my father gave several patches to some Canadian Scouts while they were still stationed in Europe before withdrawing home. In return the scouts gave my father this neckerchief. I post it here because I thought it was a nice piece as someone went to a little effort to make the neckerchief.

(Click on Picture for Larger Scan if Available)

Transatlantic Red & Whites Reborn

2008-01-07T02:50:00.000-06:00

I wonder if these CSP's have been cataloged. I do not know since I didn't get around to buying the last CSP book. Recent debate and discussions about Red & Whites made me think about this 12 Piece Friends of Scouting (FOS) set. Few have this set. I know I don't. It is awarded to folks who donated $500 dollars to the Transatlantic Council. Its a good deal since you get 12 issues and they will probably be even more rare then the original Red & White Denmark and England because so few will own the set and at least these are 100% real. The only way to get this set is to donate $500 dollars. Different FOS strips are given for the $100 donations which changes every year using a different part of the Scout Law.

DID YOU KNOW? The reason the original Red & White Denmark is so hard to find today is that there was only 1 Troop in Denmark and it only had 7 youth members. The troop only existed a couple years before being discontinued or it ended up being absorbed into what was called the Direct Service District thus probably ending any further need of Denmark Red & White Strips.

To tease a fellow collector...you will notice the lack of an England strip in this collection too... ;)

(Click on Picture for Larger Scan if Available)

Why is there no Black Eagle Fellowship Patches for 1990?

2008-01-07T02:30:00.000-06:00

Why is there no fellowship patches? Al Opstal took the time a while back to explain. While this may not be a mystery to some Black Eagle Collectors, I do believe that is something not widely spread. If you weren't at the lodge around this time period you probably don't know this.

Al reports...

"The BEL LEC decided to ceate a large patch as a fellowship patch for the 1990 Fellowships. The patch is classified as a backpatch [J-2 BB] but is really a fellowship patch for 1990 (See Attached Below).

It was only issued in 1990 for that specific year. Everyone could buy the patch, but if you went to the fellowships you'd get pin for each event.

The objective was to place the pin on the patch to indicate you had participated in the event. It is no coincidence that the images on the pins matches those on the patch."

(Click on Picture for Larger Scan if Available)

UPDATE: * Winner * Black Eagle Lodge 2006 NOAC Flap.

2008-01-05T02:16:00.000-06:00

Black Eagle Flap S-33 2006 NOAC

Ebay Auction

Can't say I didn't warn my fellow Black Eagle Lodge Collectors. I won the auction on Ebay. I suppose the only one laughing in the end is the Ebay Seller who was selling the patch. I won the auction for a whopping $140.95. The only patches I paid more from Black Eagle were the F-1, F-2, R-1, R-2, and the YS-6 (45th Ann Blue Prototype). Considering the rarity of the some of the items that I have I feel extremely fortunate to have made friends from new and old members who generously donated, traded and sold their patches to me at affordable prices. In case your wondering my high bid for this patch was $182.50. I refuse to pay anymore than that because I only paid $250 and $200 each for the Black Eagle R-1 and R-2 rounds.

I can honestly say that the Lodge Chief flap on Ebay is a far rarer patch than the 2006 NOAC flap. Doesn't get any harder than becoming a lodge chief to get a patch...am I right? I am interested to see if it was the NOAC collectors that pushed this auction so high or the Black Eagle Collectors. I will find out soon enough when the Lodge Chief Flap ends. At least I have one of those already. *whew!*

ITS A FAKE!!! Transatlantic England R&W

2008-01-04T02:40:00.000-06:00

Transatlantic England Red & White Sold on Ebay Recently

Ebay Auction

John Shaw Reports

"I recently picked up a TAC England patch on that auction site that was a newly made item. I used paypal and the AMEX card as I was a little nevrous to send such big money. I confronted the seller who started the refund process before I sent the patch back. I want to stop this seller even though I got my money back. Any one know a legal authority in Seattle or the State of Washington I can pursue this transaction with? Is it worth my time to stop this guy. I think he (Fernando Turin) may use other sales id's ichimac, turinartola. Any other information is helpful if this moves forward."

Transatlantic England Red & White (Real)

What is so disturbing about this auction on Ebay is the seller clearly tried to fool potential buyers (at least that is the impression I got). The recent ISCA Journal that came in the mail describes that patch as solid based patch.

Here is the sellers exact words describing the patch.

"I got this patch several weeks ago, I found it in my grandfather's house while it was being vacated to be sold. The only information that I have about this patch, is that it belongs to the American Boy Scout unit stationed in Heyford England."

Here is the auction if you want to see it. (Click Below).

EBAY AUCTION Fake Transatlantic England

I hope the buyer gets his money back. What most collectors do not realize is...that the Transatlantic England Red & White strip has no paperwork or reference that the council ever ordered a Transatlantic England Red & White. Its purely been spread by collectors. While lack of proof doesn't mean its fake it is odd how I have the first order form reference from the Transatlantic Trail Newspaper when the Council first switched from community strips to the Red & Whites it does not list England as an option. It has Great Britain on the order form.

Here is article from the Fall 1957 Transatlantic Trail:

"The Executive Board of the Transatlantic Council has approved the wearing of the Local Council Shoulder Insignia by the entire council membership in place of the community strips.

The Council Strip (Cat.#157) contains the name of our council and the country in which your unit is located. Council Strips are now available for Italy, Libya, Spain, France, Germany, Morocco, Great Britain, Austria, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark. They may be ordered in any quantity at 15¢ each for immediate shipment from the Council Office."

Who knows for sure. An England may have been created later along with the Crete, Cyprus, Ethiopia, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Moscow, Poland, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Scotland, Sweden, Turkey, Switzerland, and Yugoslavia. My theory if one was ever made and issued it was made at the same time as the Scotland and Ireland one but those two strips appear to be a dime a dozen while a country as large as England is virtually unseen. It so odd its almost fishy.

At least you can be sure the Denmark is real...Yay! If your going to spend big money for Denmark and England I would go with the Denmark one first. At least there is a reference to it.

Rare Order of the Arrow Indeed! ~ 482 Lodge Chief Flap~ on Ebay

2007-12-31T01:46:00.000-06:00

Black Eagle Flap S-30 Lodge Chief Flap

Ebay Auction

This is the Lodge Chief's Flap (Pictured Above). Probably better known as the "Former Lodge Chief Flap." This flap is not to be confused with the S-16. The S-16 (Picture Below) is a flap awarded by the lodge chief for outstanding service to the lodge during a fellowship. The lodge chief flap was supposed to get only "10" per term but an order mishap occurred on the reorder and instead of 100 the lodge ended up with 1000. When I left the lodge...the Lodge Chief was awarding 10 flaps per event so the rarity of this flap is all but destroyed but that should not lessen the meaning to those that earn it.

Black Eagle Flap S-16 Lodge Chief Flap

Anyway, the Silver Mylar flap above is a rare flap. There will not be many chances to get one of these flaps. The only people within the lodge that can get one of these flaps (and only 1) are Lodge Chiefs. When this flap was made a lot research went into tracking down former Lodge Chiefs. Mike Lardie, Pat Hanlon, J.P. Meier, and my father, who went to extreme efforts, to find former lodge chiefs. I assisted as well but my efforts were likely not as equal to some of their research. Tracking down former chiefs was not easy. Records of where people are 10, 20 and 50 years down the road simply do not exist in any lodge archive.

Anyhow, I do not know how many have been awarded of the 100 flaps. Probably somewhere around 40-50 of them.

Rare Black Eagle Lodge #482 Flap on Ebay (Click Below).

EBAY AUCTION Black Eagle Lodge S-30 Lodge Chief Flap

What bothers me about this auction is the person selling it does not know what the flap is and mistakenly labels the patch as an anniversary patch. The fact that he has patches from Europe implies that he may have been a former chief and simply decided to part with it because it holds little meaning to him. Patches do not mean a lot to some folks.

Regardless, it is a rare chance for collectors to get what will become one of the hardest flaps to acquire from Black Eagle Lodge. The auction is poorly labeled and will be interesting to see if collectors notice it. It already has five different bidders on it... ;)

Black Eagle Lodge 2006 NOAC Flap.

2007-12-27T01:48:00.001-06:00

Black Eagle Flap S-33 2006 NOAC

Ebay Auction

The first sighting of this flap, for those of us that did not goto NOAC that year, was shortly after NOAC ended. It appeared on Ebay and went for around $50.00 if I remember correctly. I simply forgot to follow the auction and did not think it was a big deal. I will bid on the next one....

The next 482 2006 flap just appeared on Ebay.

EBAY AUCTION Black Eagle Lodge 2006 NOAC FLAP

I would of never guessed that it would be about a year and half later. Considering the amount of time that has passed...your guess is as a good as mine on how much this flap will go for. I will keep my fingers crossed but I am not holding my breath. The only thing I know about the flap other than its designer is a rumor. Someone that attended NOAC that year emailed me about the flap. He said that the 482 Lodge Member that traded him the flap informed him that only 100 flaps were made.

This is not a high run issue unfortunately. Break out the wallet for this one. While this isn't a threat. I can promise you one thing... I will make you pay for it. :)

Transatlantic Council Medal Collection

2007-12-24T05:02:00.000-06:00

Ken Kittelberger's Metal Collection

These medals mainly appear to be volksmarching medals created or sponsored by the council for troops going on hikes at these events. Volksmarching is wide spread club or group of people throughout the country that walk around 10, 20, or 42km at a time. The 10 and 20 km marches typically have the same prize or reward while the 42km is typically for those that wish to run the marathon and usually has an additional or different end prize. Sometimes the trails vary in length from the standard. For example 12km instead of 10km. Those interested in the prize and recording their stamps for marching typically pay a small free before starting on the trek. Events usually have a stuffed animal, patch, mug, pin, medal or plate as an end prize and people typically goto specific events to collect such items. My parents used to take our family out on various events throughout the country and mainly did the ones with plates and medals as the end prize. The bratwurst, fries, and cola at the end was the reward I enjoyed and all the motivation needed to get me to go...not to mention the yummy hot tea at the rest stops on the volksmarches.

Ken Kittelberger's Metal Collection

Remebering and Revealing Black Eagle Patch History....#2

2007-12-21T22:49:00.000-06:00

High Plains Chapter Patch eR1972

David H. Aufdengarten

The first sighting of this patch was in March 2000 on Ebay. It was purchased from the man above. The patch reads, "OA Klanjo 1972. Rota, Spain. It was an exciting discovery as it was an unknown issue at the time. I have only seen this patch one more time on Ebay after the initial discovery. It was being sold by TSPA.

David said, "The OA Patches were mine, I was tapped out in 1974 at Rota, Spain as an adult leader, which was a real suprise and honor. It was a pleasant suprise to see that you sent the payment in a TAC envelope. I hope that you enjoy you scouting experiences in TAC as much as I did as an Area District Commissioner in Rota, Spain, there is a lot of great Military Scouters that I worked with in TAC and it was one of the most wonderful scouting experiences that I had in Scouting. I'm sure by now they have changed the Lodge Patch as well as other TAC patches."

I am posting the discovery of these patches so that others can see and share in the experience. A lot of patches are discovered from older members who happened to be there at the time frame. Since Black Eagle covers so many countries it is almost impossible for the lodge to control any formal patch making. Almost every chapter patch in the blue book has been added on a "on my honor" system and most never saw the light of day from any LEC meeting. Black Eagle is a very open lodge when it comes to patches. Flaps and Activity Patches are really the main patches Black Eagle Lodge takes a lot of pride in. It is such shame so few collect the lodge activity patches.

Thanks David for expanding and sharing Black Eagle Lodge #482 patch history with me.

Remebering and Revealing Black Eagle Patch History....#1

2007-12-17T00:53:00.000-06:00

Black Eagle Flap (Elder Brother) S-31 [20 Made]

John Paul Meier

For those that are even aware of this flap...This patch was JP's idea. It was meant as gift for various "older members" who were regular and long time supporters of the lodge. These were people who came to almost every event, always helped out at the events, and usually did more than fair share of the work. The patch came out around a time when the lodge lost a lot of veteran leadership and thus a very nice gift for those leaving. These were core members who were always there. I am sure folks stood up to the challenge; however, I would like to think that its not quite the same. As far as I know, all of these patches have been awarded and only myself, my father, and Dan Walker received one these flaps who already PCS'd back to the US.

It was a flap mainly for adults. I am not sure if any youth received one. I guessing a one or two did. Usually, I would be against such a patch but there is nothing wrong with an exemption every once and a while. After all, the patch was approved by the LEC. Keep in mind most youth are not members of the lodge very long as they tend to PCS and move with their parents or go off to college back in the US when turning 18. Its very difficult to become a vigil member in Black Eagle Lodge as a youth because of that and very hard to make a lasting impact as youth...as life tends to go on.

2007-12-17T00:02:00.001-06:00

New Namassakett Chapter Discovery

2007-12-13T16:33:00.001-06:00

Namassakett N-2 Neckerchief with yellow threads

Bob Cylkowski shared this with me a few days after I submitted the my final listings for the last Blue Book update. He discovered another N-2 neckerchief that has red threads holding the shield in place around the green hoop. I debated a few minutes on what to call it. I decided to label it as the N-2.5

Namassakett N-2.5 Neckerchief with red threads

Great discovery Bob and thanks for sharing with all of us.

Overseas Collecting on the Rise?

2007-12-11T02:44:00.001-06:00

Transatlantic CSP

The trend of anything overseas seems to be growing in demand. This seems at least true about Ebay. Many new and old collectors jumping into the collecting bandwagon. I often wonder if they know what they are even bidding on at times. Basically, if its a patch not on Ebay every week someone bids on it and takes it home.

1967 Intercamp Patch

Intercamp patches have been receiving an increase interest on Ebay when they appear. For years they were mostly ignored and did not attract much attention. If your wondering, Intercamp is an international camping event where multiple European countries get together once a year for a friendly scouting adventure filled with events and games for all. You get to meet people from all over Europe and share scouting values with each other. Even a fair amount of patch trading goes on. If you like international scouting items this would be the best camp to attend outside of a world jamboree. They even have a nice patch museum on site. The 1967 Intercamp patch above was bought a few years ago on Ebay on buy-it-now option for $20.00. I often wonder what it would have cost me if it was an auction instead.

Camp Columbus Rota, Spain

There is a noticeable increase for Council Camp items from Transatlantic Council. Camp Mohawk items have always been slightly popular but now even camp items that seemed mostly ignored have increased in demand. Its just a trend I am pointing out. I do not think this is a bad thing at all. Increased demand for these items will hopefully increase awareness of these scout items.

Bluebook Responsibility & Issue Classifications

2007-12-08T22:58:00.000-06:00

Many traders do send editors scans and information about patches. I honestly can not picture what it must be like to have a whole region. I find one lodge a challenge as it is. The problem I have with the system is I can not simply rewrite the classifications and delete all the odd listing. It is important to preserve the old classifications for reasons beyond my understandings. Eventually, the listings of the issues will start to blur and become a mess. What do you do when prototypes and fakes start showing up on older non flap issues like activity and chapter issues that you never dreamed of seeing?

Fake of eX1965

This real version of this activity patch has never been sold publicly to my knowledge on the net... The real version hasn't tasted Ebay as far as I know. I have heard or seen of about 5 or 6 of these patches. What do I call it though? What happens to the eX1965 issue? Is it now the eX1965-1 and eZX1965-2? Your guess is as good as mine. :) Heck, if you goto Ebay and search the whole site typing "Black Eagle 50th" you can buy one too for $19.99. As of Dec. 04, 2007 there are two available by the seller for purchase as buy-it-nows. Ken shared this with me a couple months ago so now I share it with you. Don't say I never gave ya nothing for free.

Like J-6 with Black Border

I was still overseas in the lodge when the J-6 was issued. All of them had a white border. This one is just like the J-6 but with a Black Border. It appeared on Ebay and well...I forgot to bid on it :(. Anyhow, I do not know if it is a proto-type, a re-order, a fake....or what. I can not call it something without having any information. If anyone in Black Eagle ever bothers to answer my emails that involve talking about patches maybe this mystery can be easily solved. I will sit on it until the next due date for blue book issues if I have too and give it the benefit of the doubt I suppose.

Like eX1991 from the Amangi Wachtschu Chapter

This is obviously a sample to eX1991 to the Amangi Wachtschu Chapter. It appeared on Ebay a year or two ago. I did not win this patch but there was a sample for the eR1990 chapter fellowship as well and I did win that one. Again, what do I call it? The eYX1991-2 making the original the eX1991-1?

Its a personal choice whether or not to include these patches in the bluebook. I am not even sure if a half dozen people are even aware of these posted patches and what is scary... There are more patches I have not yet posted about. The same seller that made a fake of the eX1965 also made a fake of a Black Eagle Chapter patch that I did not even bother to buy. I couldn't justify buying a fake of a chapter patch when the fake costs more than the real patch..*blink blink*. I have another scan of back patch prototype I haven't included yet.

Outside of two other major Black Eagle collectors Ken K. and Dan C. I receive little or no information about patches. With all the people buying Black Eagle patches off Ebay (and other auction sites) referencing our hard work and my website you would think these sellers would take the time and write me back and provide with some simple information...it doesn't cost anything to send an email.

Power of Suggestion...Mysterious White Flap

2007-12-06T01:38:00.000-06:00

I was approached by a person (name held for privacy) by email about this mysterious white flap. He told me he had a friend from Midwest Swiss that sent him I believe 3 white flaps in a large grouping of patches. He believed it was a prototype or sample made by the company. He offered to sell me one and asked me to pass it on to friends who might be interested in buying one. I offered to pay $100.00 and he accepted and I received my patch a few days later. He also told me that he had more flaps on the way from his source and when they got in that there was no more mysterious white flaps in the package.

ZS-8 (Midwest Swiss)

The more he talked with me about the flaps and the more I talked with a couple Black Eagle Collectors; the more I felt that something was off about this patch. At first, I embraced it as a potential prototype. I was reading SPA blog and apparently some other collector ran into similar situation with a different lodge and started questioning its true origins as well. Just when all the dust settled a seller on Ebay was selling a lot of 5 of these white flaps on Ebay. Rare proto-type my foot. I won that auction and a fellow collector asked about buying one from me. I wasn't feeling all up to snuff that weekend so I didn't get back to him over that weekend. He was offered a second chance option to buy his own lot of 5 flaps and who knows how many other second chance offers were sent out. There are sure a lot of these white flaps for an issue never ordered with that color background. So many, you could almost call it a full blown issue.

$Show Me The Money$

Regardless of your personal feelings about this patch...The bottom line it was not authorized by the lodge for release. Based off that conclusion alone that makes this patch a "Z" instead of a "Y" for prototype or sample. If that is not enough evidence for you the sheer number of them should also disqualify it as a prototype or sample. This patch is about as valuable as 2 Million Zimbabwe Bank Notes. I urge you not to invest too much money into this flap. Pay what you believe it is worth.

I would love to be proved wrong about this patch. I feel bad about this issue because I convinced another collector to buy it based of my opinion of it. In honestly, I felt like I was taken advantage of. While I do not necessarily blame the person that sold me the patch I can blame his source and the company that allowed these patches to leave its site. You think a company that keeps worthless cloth lying around all these years would keep invoices for the orders as well. Show me an invoice for this patch and I will gladly accept it as official.

Been A While...Happy Trades :)

2007-12-04T02:59:00.000-06:00

Black Eagle

I haven't posted in a while. Nothing like stating what is very apparent. Part of it has to do with not a whole lot going on patch wise but I could of found plenty of stuff to post about in all honesty. Some of it was being lazy or simply bored of the blog for a while. So what has changed?

A few days ago I was contacted by Dean Smith who traded me a whole chapter worth of Black Eagle Lodge Patches. Offers like this do not come very often and I am very pleased to finally see some Black Eagle Lodge action again. Dean has finished all of my High Plain Chapter Patch Needs.

(Click on Picture for Larger Scan if Available)

eR1981
(Dean was actually apart of this Dance Team)

This is just one of four patches on their way to me. The rest can be seen on my website at blackeagletrader.com

Fact or Fiction?...Black Eagle Lodge 1998 NOAC Flap

2007-07-18T18:36:00.001-05:00

S-17
(Yes, the official issue has a black border)

The 1998 NOAC Black Eagle Lodge Flap

Why talk about the 1998 NOAC flap several years after it was made? Rumors and mysterious sightings of another version of the flap. Like all mysteries they started somewhere and this one has been fueled by a misprint in the Blue Book way back at its debut. It does not help matters when a picture of the supposed flap is shown on John Pannell's The Internet Guide to Order of the Arrow Insignia website.

S-17?
(Yes, it appears to show a brown border)

As far as I know, no brown border versions of this flap exists officially. That does not mean the patch company that made the patches for Black Eagle did not make a brown border version of the flap. Why would the patch company do this? Well, the lodge has re-ordered patches in the past with the only changes being with the border. The 45th Anniversary flap is a perfect example of this. A red border version of the 45th Anniversary flap was made and sold out in days and a re-order was placed fairly quickly with a yellow border. Years later, a blue border version appeared on an auction held by SPA. I was the high bidder for that flap. It was not an auction on Ebay if I remember correctly. A year or two after that another one surfaced with a blue border on ebay along with a gray border version. Both were won by the same Ebayer with the userid of hyperbaricmedicineinc.

Why do I assume the same thing happened with 98 NOAC issue? Well, the lodge ordered 500 in its initial run and a few months later re-ordered an additional 500 flaps. It was probably done because the lodge feared they would run out of flaps for everyone...especially for the contingent members. Somewhere I have the merchandise receipt from the Council to prove this. Right now I can only find the records up to 1995 but not everything is unpacked yet from the move back to the United States. The Transatlantic Council was throwing all these old records out but I decided to keep them for historical references back when I worked for the council and have proved useful in situations like this.

In case I have you confused:

1.) Blue Book listing is wrong. 1998 NOAC Flap has a BLACK BORDER.

2.) The picture on John's site is either a very bad picture or a sample made by patch company.

I was highly involved with the lodge at this time and being one of few collectors in the lodge...I would of noticed a brown border version of the flap. The flap pictured on John's site never arrived in Europe. :)

Lastly, I apologize for not updating my blog more often. It was simply because the chair I used to scan patches on was full of clutter. ;)

What Made "U" Collect A Specific Lodge?

2007-05-25T00:33:00.000-05:00

Patch collecting changes or evolves as interests in the field change from person to person. Ever sit back and thank how it all begin...or even how it will all end? Did you expand your collecting interests? Did you narrow your collecting interests?...perhaps a combo of both?

What made you collect a specific lodge or council? A common answer might be because you yourself were once a member in said lodge/council or now perhaps have a son in a certain council/lodge.

As collection expands so do the reasons whether they are odd or obvious. I collect Black Eagle Lodge #482 because it was the lodge I was inducted by. I collect Lodge #406 Chickasah because it was the lodge my father was inducted into. Since it merged back in 90's, I also collect the successor...Lodge #558 Ahoalan-Nachpikin. After a while, needs of the above lodges slowed down and added Lodge #52 Moswetuset to my collection interests because I liked the odd-shaped Lobster patches.

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Since the addition of Lodge #52 Moswetuset, I have added only one new lodge to my collecting interests. It is the first new lodge added to my collection since moving back to the states, at the end of 04, and it all started by chance.

I attended my first lodge function since moving from Germany with Ahoalan-Nachpikin #558 at an annual LOAC function. There I met several folks I have talked with by E-Mail for years and it was good to put faces to all the folks I have never met before. There I met Chuck Schadrack and we got talking about patches. Turns out he collects a lot of Chickasaw Council and District patches from the area and my grandfather just so happened to give a large sack full of Chickasaw patches. I told Chuck about these patches and he was excited to hear my tale. I did not bring the sack to that function because I had no idea that anyone was so interested in those kind of patches. I told him I would bring them to the next event of Lodge 558 that I could attend, and I did, but before that he told me to look through his dupes and pick up any patches that caught my interest...

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I was digging through Chuck's dupes and discovered a bunch of old Ittawamba Lodge #235 flaps. They had that old thick swiss look to them that many collectors like...*wink*. I picked up 7 or 8 of these flaps and was immediately tickled with excitement when he basically said he was glad to help. Chuck gave them to me in the hopes of getting first dibs on my Grandfather's old stuff. He got his wish and was pretty stoked like a pirate digging through a treasure chest full of booty. He had to wait almost a whole year for his side of the trade and that is something I believe most other collectors would not have done in his place.

I was shocked at the difficulty and even value held by some of these old 235 patches when I first started to research lodge #235 which has now become my latest addition to my collecting field. Lodge #235 issues more patches than I can keep up with and is proving to be quite a challenging lodge to collect and it is all thanks to a few dupes laying in Chuck's bag.

Buy Your R/W Denmark Strip for only 15¢

2007-05-12T02:24:00.000-05:00

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The article above reads as follows...

"The Executive Board of Transatlantic Council has approved the wearing of local council shoulder insignia by the entire council membership in place of the community and state strips.

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The council strip (cat.#157) contains the name of our council and the country in which your unit is located. Council strips are now available for Italy, Libya, Spain, France, Germany, Morocco, Great Britain, Austria, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, and Denmark. They may be ordered in any quantity at 15¢ for immediate shipment from the council office."

Of course, this article is about 40 years old. It is interesting to note that there is no mention of an England Council Strip, but Great Britain instead, which makes me question exactly when and by who created the England strip. The R/W England strip is highly sought by Transatlantic collectors. It is safe to say that the England Red and White had to be made after the 1960s.

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Both of these Red and White Council Strips easily sell for over $1000 but recent appearances of both on Ebay have seen those values exceed by more than double. Not bad for a piece of cloth that sold originally for 15¢

Did You Know...?!

2007-05-10T00:21:00.000-05:00

I was reading through my old Transatlantic Council newsletters called, "Transatlantic Trails!" If you happened to have any historical paperwork from the council please feel free to email me. I would like to obtain a copy. The same goes for all paperwork from the lodge and chapters such as newsletters and fliers.

Below is about the oldest piece of history I have from the council. Posted for your viewing pleasure is Transatlantic Trail #1 issue from December 1955.

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Below is the first evidence I have of the council's breakdown of districts. Only one of those districts exist today by the same name.....Mediterranean District.

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Black Eagle Lodge in the early 1950's was apparently an unorganized mess. The history of the lodge can be traced back to 1952; however, the first annual lodge event did not take place until Feb 17-18 1956. The article below states...

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"The first annual meeting of the Order of the Arrow, Black Eagle Lodge, will be held on Friday and Saturday, Feb. 17-18 at Chiemsee Leave and Rest Cent.

The meeting will start at 19:30 Friday and close at 22:00 Saturday. Saturday afternoon will be free.

Resverations must be made in advance at the Council office in Heidelberg.

Order of the Arrow members from other Lodges in the States are invited to attend.

Enclosed in this issue of the Transatlantic Trail is a special notice of this meeting. Unit leaders are asked to pass this world along to any Order of the Arrow members in their Units."

Almost...But Never Was (Part 2)

2007-05-08T22:24:00.000-05:00

Al Opstal, former lodge adviser, used to assist and take part in patch design/creation of fellowship patches for Black Eagle Lodge 482. If and when scouts did not come up with a theme or design, Al would seek the guidance of Tom Slavicek. Tom has created several fellowship patches for Black Eagle Lodge. Eventually, Al PCS'd back to the United States and the Fall Fellowship patch design for 2001 went with him. It was one of many patches Tom designed at the request of Al.

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The patch that took its place was rather unpleasant. The multi-purpose patch was used for over 3 different lodge functions. It was designed by Peter Amrphol. The lodge apparently used it as a quick fix and to keep costs down on patches.

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Sadly, after Al's departure Black Eagle really has abandoned keeping a steady theme to fellowship patches. The designs have been from mild to wild with no basis of coherent logic. In 2005, the fellowship showed signs of returning to traditional standards but it did not last. While this change is not necessarily a bad thing...it is different from that of which I remembered.